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> <channel><title>Comments on: Safety Rules for Tablesaws: the PTI POV</title> <atom:link href="http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/editors-blog/safety-rules-for-tablesaws-the-pti-pov/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/editors-blog/safety-rules-for-tablesaws-the-pti-pov</link> <description>Woodworking advice, woodworking plans, woodworking projects and woodworking blogs</description> <lastBuildDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:32:12 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1</generator> <item><title>By: rsz01</title><link>http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/editors-blog/safety-rules-for-tablesaws-the-pti-pov/comment-page-1#comment-20558</link> <dc:creator>rsz01</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 05:57:19 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.popularwoodworking.com/?p=107073#comment-20558</guid> <description><![CDATA[Why don&#039;t they put a breathalyzer on every car? Wouldn&#039;t it stop all the deaths and harm from drunk drivers? Why not simply make cigarettes illegal and eliminate all the death and expense of lung cancer and emphysema?  Obviously there are more things involved here than common sense.]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why don&#8217;t they put a breathalyzer on every car? Wouldn&#8217;t it stop all the deaths and harm from drunk drivers? Why not simply make cigarettes illegal and eliminate all the death and expense of lung cancer and emphysema?  Obviously there are more things involved here than common sense.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Gerald Wayne Wheeler</title><link>http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/editors-blog/safety-rules-for-tablesaws-the-pti-pov/comment-page-1#comment-20423</link> <dc:creator>Gerald Wayne Wheeler</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 19:00:49 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.popularwoodworking.com/?p=107073#comment-20423</guid> <description><![CDATA[Mr. Lang, your statement -- &quot;As a group, we need to take responsibility for our own safety, and stop [intentionally] putting our hands into the path of our table saw blades&quot; – tends to hang in my craw.  Try selling that statement to an accident victim (such as an employee) that had no Kamikaze intentions or an employeer.  In my 40+ years in woodworking, it mattered not that I was/am pro (safety) active, workers still got hurt and no one ever deliberately put their hand in a powered saw blade, their accidents were just that -- unforeseen accidents.  I know firsthand that there is now proven technology that can and does greatly diminish table saw accidents as our Shop Foreman experienced one and has shared his experience having articles written by national magazines about his then unique table saw (non-injury) &#039;accident&#039;.  Though He didn&#039;t intentionally put his hand in the path of the blade, but thanks to the affordable proven safety technology that&#039;s on the market today and in our table saws, - his hand was completely spared (regardless whether or not he intentionally put his hands into the path of the table saw blade)! I sleep much better at nights knowing our (hand operated) table saws are now safer.  Gerald Wayne Wheeler; Founder, Cabinet Door Shop; Hot Springs, Arkansas.]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Lang, your statement &#8212; &#8220;As a group, we need to take responsibility for our own safety, and stop [intentionally] putting our hands into the path of our table saw blades&#8221; – tends to hang in my craw.  Try selling that statement to an accident victim (such as an employee) that had no Kamikaze intentions or an employeer.  In my 40+ years in woodworking, it mattered not that I was/am pro (safety) active, workers still got hurt and no one ever deliberately put their hand in a powered saw blade, their accidents were just that &#8212; unforeseen accidents.  I know firsthand that there is now proven technology that can and does greatly diminish table saw accidents as our Shop Foreman experienced one and has shared his experience having articles written by national magazines about his then unique table saw (non-injury) &#8216;accident&#8217;.  Though He didn&#8217;t intentionally put his hand in the path of the blade, but thanks to the affordable proven safety technology that&#8217;s on the market today and in our table saws, &#8211; his hand was completely spared (regardless whether or not he intentionally put his hands into the path of the table saw blade)! I sleep much better at nights knowing our (hand operated) table saws are now safer.  Gerald Wayne Wheeler; Founder, Cabinet Door Shop; Hot Springs, Arkansas.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: CGH</title><link>http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/editors-blog/safety-rules-for-tablesaws-the-pti-pov/comment-page-1#comment-20418</link> <dc:creator>CGH</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 06 Aug 2011 03:16:16 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.popularwoodworking.com/?p=107073#comment-20418</guid> <description><![CDATA[Just so you know, I was following all the safety rules, including my guard was in place, but the guard itself bound the stock that I was cutting, my hand slipped causing it to enter under the guard injuring my thumb. I followed the manufacturers published rules and still suffered.]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just so you know, I was following all the safety rules, including my guard was in place, but the guard itself bound the stock that I was cutting, my hand slipped causing it to enter under the guard injuring my thumb. I followed the manufacturers published rules and still suffered.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: CGH</title><link>http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/editors-blog/safety-rules-for-tablesaws-the-pti-pov/comment-page-1#comment-20416</link> <dc:creator>CGH</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 06 Aug 2011 02:48:13 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.popularwoodworking.com/?p=107073#comment-20416</guid> <description><![CDATA[I owe a Sawstop and accidentally triggered it shortly after I purchased it. I did not damage the blade, I was able to remove it from the brakeshoe and still use it today. As for the cartridge I was out the price of a new one, but I would rather have that than thousands it would cost me at a hospital for an injury. The system can be disabled when you need to cut wet pressure treated wood or a piece of aluminum, as in my case. The primary feature of the saw is that it stops the blade. The manufacturer of the saw became aware that he could use the force of the blade stopping to release it from a clip and let it drop below the surface of the table, so it was implimented.]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I owe a Sawstop and accidentally triggered it shortly after I purchased it. I did not damage the blade, I was able to remove it from the brakeshoe and still use it today. As for the cartridge I was out the price of a new one, but I would rather have that than thousands it would cost me at a hospital for an injury. The system can be disabled when you need to cut wet pressure treated wood or a piece of aluminum, as in my case. The primary feature of the saw is that it stops the blade. The manufacturer of the saw became aware that he could use the force of the blade stopping to release it from a clip and let it drop below the surface of the table, so it was implimented.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: dreamcatcher</title><link>http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/editors-blog/safety-rules-for-tablesaws-the-pti-pov/comment-page-1#comment-20345</link> <dc:creator>dreamcatcher</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 29 Jul 2011 13:31:50 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.popularwoodworking.com/?p=107073#comment-20345</guid> <description><![CDATA[&quot;....it would require an entirely different design...&quot;This is precisely what needs to happen. I assume finding a new means of dropping the blade gets the TS manufacturers around one or two of Mr. Gass&#039; patent rights and possibly on their way to a brand new proprietary (even safer?) flesh detection system.This is part of why I am on the fence regarding gov. regulation in this matter. While I would rather that consumer choice would move the TS makers to be more innovative, it is indeed an industry that has historically proven to hesitate to change (it took Delta about 70 years to make dramatic improvement to their Unisaw!). Certain methods of gov. regulation has proven to spur innovation; though it can also do the opposite if wrongly imposed - don&#039;t get me wrong. So, I remain on the fence but hopeful to see some progress in the industry.DC]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;.it would require an entirely different design&#8230;&#8221;</p><p>This is precisely what needs to happen. I assume finding a new means of dropping the blade gets the TS manufacturers around one or two of Mr. Gass&#8217; patent rights and possibly on their way to a brand new proprietary (even safer?) flesh detection system.</p><p>This is part of why I am on the fence regarding gov. regulation in this matter. While I would rather that consumer choice would move the TS makers to be more innovative, it is indeed an industry that has historically proven to hesitate to change (it took Delta about 70 years to make dramatic improvement to their Unisaw!). Certain methods of gov. regulation has proven to spur innovation; though it can also do the opposite if wrongly imposed &#8211; don&#8217;t get me wrong. So, I remain on the fence but hopeful to see some progress in the industry.</p><p>DC</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: mitch</title><link>http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/editors-blog/safety-rules-for-tablesaws-the-pti-pov/comment-page-1#comment-20344</link> <dc:creator>mitch</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 29 Jul 2011 12:44:19 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.popularwoodworking.com/?p=107073#comment-20344</guid> <description><![CDATA[&quot;...why the blade must drop into a brake and thus destroy the blade and part of the machine. If the blade is already below the table what&#039;s the harm if it&#039;s still spinning?&quot;the energy to drop the blade is actually provided by the blade brake itself (see my analogy below to sticking your toes in a bike wheel&#039;s spokes).  in other words, in the SawStop system, it&#039;s the sudden stopping of the blade that MAKES it drop below the table.  it&#039;s merely a by-product, not to mention a necessary mechanism to avoid shearing shafts, destroying bearing, etc. by dissipation of excess violent energy, of the blade brake action.  it would require an entirely different design to drop the blade while still spinning.]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;why the blade must drop into a brake and thus destroy the blade and part of the machine. If the blade is already below the table what&#8217;s the harm if it&#8217;s still spinning?&#8221;</p><p>the energy to drop the blade is actually provided by the blade brake itself (see my analogy below to sticking your toes in a bike wheel&#8217;s spokes).  in other words, in the SawStop system, it&#8217;s the sudden stopping of the blade that MAKES it drop below the table.  it&#8217;s merely a by-product, not to mention a necessary mechanism to avoid shearing shafts, destroying bearing, etc. by dissipation of excess violent energy, of the blade brake action.  it would require an entirely different design to drop the blade while still spinning.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: dreamcatcher</title><link>http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/editors-blog/safety-rules-for-tablesaws-the-pti-pov/comment-page-1#comment-20337</link> <dc:creator>dreamcatcher</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:03:11 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.popularwoodworking.com/?p=107073#comment-20337</guid> <description><![CDATA[Capnjack, I fear you won&#039;t think me 100% right after this....I often don&#039;t use a fence nor jigging while making a tapered cut. Many DIY&#039;ers would probably take exception to several of the methods I use regularly on a table saw (more so on my bench saw than my cabinet saw). But hey, I do a lot of trim carpentry and that is how I was taught to make tapered and scribe cuts. I know exactly the type of cut that Osorio was attempting; it&#039;s a simple cut to me (flooring cuts don&#039;t often need much precision since the cut ends are usually covered by trim).You must remember that work in the field doesn&#039;t allow the same time and resources as in the shop. Jobsite carpentry can be quite dangerous and it takes a bit more cunning to keep yourself out of harm&#039;s way. Funny thing is that I learn by listening to the tragic stories like Osorio&#039;s and others here and where I work. I literally take a moment to contemplate the idea of losing fingers before starting cuts. I imagine making the cut for a split second before actually making it and in that time I think of all that could go wrong and set a plan in mind to take the appropriate action if necessary.Bench saws are certainly not the same beasts that cabinet saws are. I work more cautiously on my cabinet saw than my bench saw. But I know that I can physically overpower my bench saw&#039;s motor if I ever needed to (using the wood I am sawing - not with my bare hands). Not so much on my cabinet saw - it would probably just impale me if I tried. But bench saws are a comparatively modern iteration. Cabinet (industrial) saws have caused a myriad more injury than bench saws ever will. Old saws had unhoused blades spinning beneath the table. They had short fences (in both height and length). They required the table to tilt instead of the blade arbor. They used steel toothed blades (no carbides) that were often dull and dangerous. To make matters worse they were placed in sketchy working conditions where lighting was poor, dust collection was non-existent, and users were over worked and undereducated. Even the lowliest bench saw is undoubtedly safer than the saws of the past.Lately I have been finding myself on the fence over the debate to regulate/mandate safer technology. I don&#039;t believe I need it but I wouldn&#039;t turn it down if it were freely offered. I would like to see all the table saw companies invent their own proprietary flesh detection technology - we will surely lose if there is only the one Saw Stop as an option. Saw Stop has it&#039;s flaws for sure. I have often wondered why the blade must drop into a brake and thus destroy the blade and part of the machine. If the blade is already below the table what&#039;s the harm if it&#039;s still spinning? I cannot see Saw Stop technology being viable on a job site where one must often cut wet (pressure treated) wood or simply make cuts in the rain/snow. Like I said before working on site is a much different work environment and should be treated as one... attempting to forcefully apply perfect shop standards into a inherently imperfect scenario just will not work.DC]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Capnjack, I fear you won&#8217;t think me 100% right after this&#8230;.</p><p>I often don&#8217;t use a fence nor jigging while making a tapered cut. Many DIY&#8217;ers would probably take exception to several of the methods I use regularly on a table saw (more so on my bench saw than my cabinet saw). But hey, I do a lot of trim carpentry and that is how I was taught to make tapered and scribe cuts. I know exactly the type of cut that Osorio was attempting; it&#8217;s a simple cut to me (flooring cuts don&#8217;t often need much precision since the cut ends are usually covered by trim).</p><p>You must remember that work in the field doesn&#8217;t allow the same time and resources as in the shop. Jobsite carpentry can be quite dangerous and it takes a bit more cunning to keep yourself out of harm&#8217;s way. Funny thing is that I learn by listening to the tragic stories like Osorio&#8217;s and others here and where I work. I literally take a moment to contemplate the idea of losing fingers before starting cuts. I imagine making the cut for a split second before actually making it and in that time I think of all that could go wrong and set a plan in mind to take the appropriate action if necessary.</p><p>Bench saws are certainly not the same beasts that cabinet saws are. I work more cautiously on my cabinet saw than my bench saw. But I know that I can physically overpower my bench saw&#8217;s motor if I ever needed to (using the wood I am sawing &#8211; not with my bare hands). Not so much on my cabinet saw &#8211; it would probably just impale me if I tried. But bench saws are a comparatively modern iteration. Cabinet (industrial) saws have caused a myriad more injury than bench saws ever will. Old saws had unhoused blades spinning beneath the table. They had short fences (in both height and length). They required the table to tilt instead of the blade arbor. They used steel toothed blades (no carbides) that were often dull and dangerous. To make matters worse they were placed in sketchy working conditions where lighting was poor, dust collection was non-existent, and users were over worked and undereducated. Even the lowliest bench saw is undoubtedly safer than the saws of the past.</p><p>Lately I have been finding myself on the fence over the debate to regulate/mandate safer technology. I don&#8217;t believe I need it but I wouldn&#8217;t turn it down if it were freely offered. I would like to see all the table saw companies invent their own proprietary flesh detection technology &#8211; we will surely lose if there is only the one Saw Stop as an option. Saw Stop has it&#8217;s flaws for sure. I have often wondered why the blade must drop into a brake and thus destroy the blade and part of the machine. If the blade is already below the table what&#8217;s the harm if it&#8217;s still spinning? I cannot see Saw Stop technology being viable on a job site where one must often cut wet (pressure treated) wood or simply make cuts in the rain/snow. Like I said before working on site is a much different work environment and should be treated as one&#8230; attempting to forcefully apply perfect shop standards into a inherently imperfect scenario just will not work.</p><p>DC</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: mkroemer</title><link>http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/editors-blog/safety-rules-for-tablesaws-the-pti-pov/comment-page-1#comment-20334</link> <dc:creator>mkroemer</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2011 11:21:20 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.popularwoodworking.com/?p=107073#comment-20334</guid> <description><![CDATA[Here we go again...our government trying to protect us from ourselves!]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here we go again&#8230;our government trying to protect us from ourselves!</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: LouisianaJoe</title><link>http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/editors-blog/safety-rules-for-tablesaws-the-pti-pov/comment-page-1#comment-20331</link> <dc:creator>LouisianaJoe</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2011 04:45:45 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.popularwoodworking.com/?p=107073#comment-20331</guid> <description><![CDATA[I have a philosophy.Assume that it will hurt you and act so that it does not. If it can hurt you, sooner or later,it will if you are not proactive.I use jigs, push sticks and anything else that keeps my hands as far away from the blade as possible. For small parts, I use a sled with clamps to hold down the board being cut. I will use more time setting up a cut than the time to make the cut. For long cuts I try to get someone to pull the board from the other side when I am pushing too close to the blade. Stay out of the line of fire in case of kick backs.]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a philosophy.</p><p>Assume that it will hurt you and act so that it does not. If it can hurt you, sooner or later,it will if you are not proactive.</p><p>I use jigs, push sticks and anything else that keeps my hands as far away from the blade as possible. For small parts, I use a sled with clamps to hold down the board being cut. I will use more time setting up a cut than the time to make the cut. For long cuts I try to get someone to pull the board from the other side when I am pushing too close to the blade. Stay out of the line of fire in case of kick backs.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: LouisianaJoe</title><link>http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/editors-blog/safety-rules-for-tablesaws-the-pti-pov/comment-page-1#comment-20330</link> <dc:creator>LouisianaJoe</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2011 04:29:55 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.popularwoodworking.com/?p=107073#comment-20330</guid> <description><![CDATA[When I see predatory legal action such as this, I get angry. One company is trying to make the saw that most DIYers use so expensive that we will not be able to afford them.I will not buy a product from Saw-Stop after reading this. I will also not buy a product that uses their patents.]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I see predatory legal action such as this, I get angry. One company is trying to make the saw that most DIYers use so expensive that we will not be able to afford them.</p><p>I will not buy a product from Saw-Stop after reading this. I will also not buy a product that uses their patents.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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