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> <channel><title>Comments on: On Gaps and Dovetails and Winterthur</title> <atom:link href="http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/on-gaps-and-dovetails-and-winterthur/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/on-gaps-and-dovetails-and-winterthur</link> <description>Woodworking advice, woodworking plans, woodworking projects and woodworking blogs</description> <lastBuildDate>Sun, 19 May 2013 12:03:41 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1</generator> <item><title>By: jacon4</title><link>http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/on-gaps-and-dovetails-and-winterthur/comment-page-1#comment-74626</link> <dc:creator>jacon4</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 10 May 2013 20:59:12 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.popularwoodworking.com/?p=218751#comment-74626</guid> <description><![CDATA[Yeah, i have been looking for the answer to this question for going on 30 years, ever since i got an 18th century  painted blanket chest that had them. Even the drawers had wedged dovetails, it&#039;s very obvious this was done on purpose and not to &quot;fix&quot; flaws/gaps in the chest. It&#039;s Germanic construction no doubt however, no one that i know of can answer why german american cabinetmakers did this. I&#039;d post pics but this blog does not have that feature?]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, i have been looking for the answer to this question for going on 30 years, ever since i got an 18th century  painted blanket chest that had them. Even the drawers had wedged dovetails, it&#8217;s very obvious this was done on purpose and not to &#8220;fix&#8221; flaws/gaps in the chest. It&#8217;s Germanic construction no doubt however, no one that i know of can answer why german american cabinetmakers did this. I&#8217;d post pics but this blog does not have that feature?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Kelley Blanton</title><link>http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/on-gaps-and-dovetails-and-winterthur/comment-page-1#comment-50811</link> <dc:creator>Kelley Blanton</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2012 00:10:14 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.popularwoodworking.com/?p=218751#comment-50811</guid> <description><![CDATA[Oops,sorry for the poor internet skills.
This link should be the one:http://woodwins.blogspot.com/2012/08/wedged-dovetail-pictures.htmlKelley]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops,sorry for the poor internet skills.<br
/> This link should be the one:</p><p><a
href="http://woodwins.blogspot.com/2012/08/wedged-dovetail-pictures.html" rel="nofollow">http://woodwins.blogspot.com/2012/08/wedged-dovetail-pictures.html</a></p><p>Kelley</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: bglenden</title><link>http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/on-gaps-and-dovetails-and-winterthur/comment-page-1#comment-50791</link> <dc:creator>bglenden</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2012 22:33:02 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.popularwoodworking.com/?p=218751#comment-50791</guid> <description><![CDATA[Your link seems to be private? I can&#039;t access it anyway.Cheers,
Brian]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your link seems to be private? I can&#8217;t access it anyway.</p><p>Cheers,<br
/> Brian</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: bglenden</title><link>http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/on-gaps-and-dovetails-and-winterthur/comment-page-1#comment-50781</link> <dc:creator>bglenden</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2012 22:30:49 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.popularwoodworking.com/?p=218751#comment-50781</guid> <description><![CDATA[I forgot to take pictures while I was there, but my Dad kindly did it on my behalf:https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2169961/IMG_0389.JPG ; and
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2169961/IMG_0391.JPGAny comments would be very welcome!Cheers,
Brian]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I forgot to take pictures while I was there, but my Dad kindly did it on my behalf:</p><p><a
href="https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2169961/IMG_0389.JPG" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2169961/IMG_0389.JPG</a> ; and<br
/> <a
href="https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2169961/IMG_0391.JPG" rel="nofollow">https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2169961/IMG_0391.JPG</a></p><p>Any comments would be very welcome!</p><p>Cheers,<br
/> Brian</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Kelley Blanton</title><link>http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/on-gaps-and-dovetails-and-winterthur/comment-page-1#comment-50751</link> <dc:creator>Kelley Blanton</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2012 13:49:34 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.popularwoodworking.com/?p=218751#comment-50751</guid> <description><![CDATA[I have posted some pictures here: http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=5965309449786983041#editor/target=post;postID=1757438391430368394I imagine it depends on where you live, but most any antique shop in the Shenandoah Valley where I am will one or more of these chests on display.I do not know how to make computer drawings and link to them, although that is a good idea a previous commenter requested.  Perhaps someone who is SketchUp savvy (PW staff?) could help.As far a published information, I am not aware of any of any substance.  That might be because everything that I have checked is of an English background, and this comes from an German tradition.  Maybe someone who reads German might have seen something.The web has little more to offer.  All the threads seem to start with someone like Chris S. saying wow look at this, what&#039;s up, and the answer that shuts it down is that someone was trying to tighten  up some loose joints.  Hundreds and hundreds of beautifully made chests with each and every pin wedged suggests otherwise.I have yet to talk to a museum curator who has given much thought to this.  When I showed one what I was talking about, she suggested writing an article for FWW.  Well okay, this is an interesting woodworking joint for sure, but it has so much more to offer to the study of period furniture.  I know that most curators are not from a building background, but a sustained shop practice is just as much a signature as a bellflower design.  There is also interesting stuff here about gluing and clamping procedures, always difficult information to come up with about early shops.]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have posted some pictures here: <a
href="http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=5965309449786983041#editor/target=post;postID=1757438391430368394" rel="nofollow">http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=5965309449786983041#editor/target=post;postID=1757438391430368394</a></p><p>I imagine it depends on where you live, but most any antique shop in the Shenandoah Valley where I am will one or more of these chests on display.</p><p>I do not know how to make computer drawings and link to them, although that is a good idea a previous commenter requested.  Perhaps someone who is SketchUp savvy (PW staff?) could help.</p><p>As far a published information, I am not aware of any of any substance.  That might be because everything that I have checked is of an English background, and this comes from an German tradition.  Maybe someone who reads German might have seen something.</p><p>The web has little more to offer.  All the threads seem to start with someone like Chris S. saying wow look at this, what&#8217;s up, and the answer that shuts it down is that someone was trying to tighten  up some loose joints.  Hundreds and hundreds of beautifully made chests with each and every pin wedged suggests otherwise.</p><p>I have yet to talk to a museum curator who has given much thought to this.  When I showed one what I was talking about, she suggested writing an article for FWW.  Well okay, this is an interesting woodworking joint for sure, but it has so much more to offer to the study of period furniture.  I know that most curators are not from a building background, but a sustained shop practice is just as much a signature as a bellflower design.  There is also interesting stuff here about gluing and clamping procedures, always difficult information to come up with about early shops.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Kelley Blanton</title><link>http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/on-gaps-and-dovetails-and-winterthur/comment-page-1#comment-50631</link> <dc:creator>Kelley Blanton</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2012 00:50:20 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.popularwoodworking.com/?p=218751#comment-50631</guid> <description><![CDATA[Thanks for the great pictures!  I will post some others  as well.Your point about a chisel stab to get the wedges inserted is a good one, and the lines on the side of the drawer are very interesting.  I had not seen that before.  If indeed they are traces from a chisel  splitting the pin, then it suggests not a very deep split.I have two reasons for why I think a saw cut might have been made .  First,  the chests that I have seen have wedges that are neatly and systematically placed in the pins. There is some slight variation  within the same chest, but it is so consistent that I thought only a saw cut could account for that.  Splitting that many pins with a chisel  you might expect  would produce some unevenness due to grain runout.
The second reason is that very often the wedge is  so thick for the width of the pin, it seems to me there has to be some space for all that wedge to go.  Say an 18 inch deep  chest has  10 pins or more and each wedge is near an 1/8th, the you are looking at over an inch or more of wedge!  The flared dovetail cuts account for some of this, but the amount of slope that I see is not very much.
If a sawcut was used, then of course it would have been made before assembly, there being no way to saw across the entire width of the pin after knocking it together.  The cut does not need to go all the way down, which might explain why there no sign of a sawcut at the bottom of apin.  However you would expect to find one every now and then, and I have never found one.  This would support the chisel opening theoryAt any rate,I have used saw cuts when making these joints. I wll try the chisel cut approach sometime and see what happens.  I am probably just too nervous about splitting the tail board.
Perhaps both approaches were used.  It wouldn&#039;t surprise me.  Maybe someone will come up with a way of telling for sure.]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the great pictures!  I will post some others  as well.</p><p>Your point about a chisel stab to get the wedges inserted is a good one, and the lines on the side of the drawer are very interesting.  I had not seen that before.  If indeed they are traces from a chisel  splitting the pin, then it suggests not a very deep split.</p><p>I have two reasons for why I think a saw cut might have been made .  First,  the chests that I have seen have wedges that are neatly and systematically placed in the pins. There is some slight variation  within the same chest, but it is so consistent that I thought only a saw cut could account for that.  Splitting that many pins with a chisel  you might expect  would produce some unevenness due to grain runout.<br
/> The second reason is that very often the wedge is  so thick for the width of the pin, it seems to me there has to be some space for all that wedge to go.  Say an 18 inch deep  chest has  10 pins or more and each wedge is near an 1/8th, the you are looking at over an inch or more of wedge!  The flared dovetail cuts account for some of this, but the amount of slope that I see is not very much.<br
/> If a sawcut was used, then of course it would have been made before assembly, there being no way to saw across the entire width of the pin after knocking it together.  The cut does not need to go all the way down, which might explain why there no sign of a sawcut at the bottom of apin.  However you would expect to find one every now and then, and I have never found one.  This would support the chisel opening theory</p><p>At any rate,I have used saw cuts when making these joints. I wll try the chisel cut approach sometime and see what happens.  I am probably just too nervous about splitting the tail board.<br
/> Perhaps both approaches were used.  It wouldn&#8217;t surprise me.  Maybe someone will come up with a way of telling for sure.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Epimenides</title><link>http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/on-gaps-and-dovetails-and-winterthur/comment-page-1#comment-50581</link> <dc:creator>Epimenides</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 16:44:41 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.popularwoodworking.com/?p=218751#comment-50581</guid> <description><![CDATA[Chris, Do you mind uploading the picture when you receive them from the contributors? I mean if they don&#039;t mind.]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, Do you mind uploading the picture when you receive them from the contributors? I mean if they don&#8217;t mind.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: millcrek</title><link>http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/on-gaps-and-dovetails-and-winterthur/comment-page-1#comment-50541</link> <dc:creator>millcrek</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 13:48:08 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.popularwoodworking.com/?p=218751#comment-50541</guid> <description><![CDATA[For any one still interested I just posted some pictures of wedged pins on my blog.]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For any one still interested I just posted some pictures of wedged pins on my blog.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: carguy460</title><link>http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/on-gaps-and-dovetails-and-winterthur/comment-page-1#comment-50441</link> <dc:creator>carguy460</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2012 15:01:41 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.popularwoodworking.com/?p=218751#comment-50441</guid> <description><![CDATA[This is interesting...if you need &quot;gappier&quot; dovetails to try out, I&#039;m a quality manufacturer of gappy dovetails. In fact I specialize in all types of gappy joints. I&#039;m what you call a gap expert.]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is interesting&#8230;if you need &#8220;gappier&#8221; dovetails to try out, I&#8217;m a quality manufacturer of gappy dovetails. In fact I specialize in all types of gappy joints. I&#8217;m what you call a gap expert.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: TobyC</title><link>http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/on-gaps-and-dovetails-and-winterthur/comment-page-1#comment-50401</link> <dc:creator>TobyC</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2012 12:36:42 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.popularwoodworking.com/?p=218751#comment-50401</guid> <description><![CDATA[I would like to see pictures of original examples, but I would also like to see detailed drawings. Or an article showing them being made and used.Toby]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to see pictures of original examples, but I would also like to see detailed drawings. Or an article showing them being made and used.</p><p>Toby</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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