Comments on: The Emperor’s New Saw?

By: renaissanceww

renaissanceww — Wed, 17 Apr 2013 15:35:06 +0000

I’m reposting here because I keep getting emails from people asking if I have read this post. I respect Adam’s opinion but I have to wonder what good comes from discouraging someone to try building one of these saws. I have now put a substantial amount of time in behind both my 48″ and 36″ model of this saw. I have cut 1/8″ thick veneer and 1″ thick slices from everything from 6″ wide up to 24″ wide. I have cut Basswood, Cherry, White Oak, Walnut, Afrormosia, Teak, Pine, and Hard Maple. There is a big learning curve to guiding this saw but nothing that a little practice won’t correct by going and buying some cheap 2×12 home center stock and making cuts. You have to fiddle with the set a lot more on this to get the entire blade running true, but 9 times out of 10 errors in tracking a line relate to body mechanics because the long stroke of the saw amplifies and misalignment in your stance and arm movements. Practice figured this out for me and my own technique eccentricities. I stand by this saw as an element that has changed my woodworking! I have possibilities with it that I would not have with a Bandsaw because I will never have the space or money for something that can resaw a 20″+ board. I have shot several videos on this saw if anyone is interested. http://www.renaissancewoodworker.com/why-you-need-a-resaw-frame-saw/ is where you can find my results of a recent 24″ wide board and a short video. Plus you will find another video in the related links at the bottom. I hope people will reconsider and make this saw, it is a great learning experience in sawing technique, saw sharpening/setting, and will open up a lot of possibilities lumber wise in your work.

By: Austintom

Austintom — Sun, 03 Feb 2013 17:27:24 +0000

I feel a little late to the party, but as someone who resaws on a regular basis with machines, I feel I can shed some insight. I never up and cut logs. Sometimes customers bring logs in for furniture, if they have special meaning, but they are always sent off to the mill. My first step is not the bandsaw, it is the tablesaw. It maynot cut all the way through, but it is fast and will leave a deep kerf on both edges which the bandsaw will track in. It cuts down on the time it takes for the bandsaw to cut and allows you to not worry about special blades, fences, etc. Much faster, and since getting projects out the door is my sole source of income, That is very important. I can’t imagine the headache of just throwing a 15″ board up on my bandsaw and expecting it to come out good enough to use in a timely fashion. This means that boards under 9 inches are resawed solely on the tablsaw. hope this helps.

By: AMarshall

AMarshall — Thu, 31 Jan 2013 16:12:36 +0000

I had the opportunity to experiment with Mike Siemsen’s saw at Woodworking in America 2011, and there is a big learning curve with these. The temptation is to muscle the saw around and correct a wandering cut, which seemed to make things much worse very quickly. I also suspect that there may be an “ideal sawing partner” out there for everybody, but that person is likely difficult to find. Matt Vanderlist was on the other side of the saw, and our height differences didn’t help – sorry Matt! I’ll be the first to admit that I was the weak link in the operation, though.

By: cbf123

cbf123 — Tue, 29 Jan 2013 22:43:08 +0000

Just thought I’d point out that resawing 16-inch-wide stock will take a pretty serious bandsaw. Most saws (even decent ones) will only do 12″.

If buying new you’re spending $3000 on a Laguna or $2500 on a Grizzly before you get that kind of capacity.

By: msiemsen

msiemsen — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 18:43:57 +0000

The reason that we made these saws was to find out how they work. It seems that most people are having similar results but we are all using narrow blades as far as I know. the originals had blades with around .050 thickness and 4 inch width. I would assume that these wider thicker blades would have less of a torsion problem. I also wonder if our frames are rigid enough or if they are also twisting in use.
If these saws didn’t work they wouldn’t have made them.
Are they necessary? Probably not, fun to mess with? absolutely!
Remember that there was no alternative back then and these guys were more skilled and in better shape than most of us.
I plan to make some wider blades and experiment some more. Not everything works perfectly right out of the gate.

By: BruceWLove

BruceWLove — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 13:47:02 +0000

This is pretty interesting. I am curious about your “coarse toothed” panel saw to which you compare the performance. How coarse? Am I wrong it thinking that it does seem logical that panel saws would have advantages as they eventually replaced frame saws?

My history can be sketchy, so even for pit-sawing, I am curious about the timing of the transition from frame-type saws to “panel saws”. You are saying that transition happened in England first?

Regardless, this is why building and trying tools like this is educational. But, I am always more interested in the journey than the destination… No one seems to think these saws are “quick and easy”.

By: renaissanceww

renaissanceww — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 16:07:46 +0000

Great post Adam. I am one of those that have made a saw like this though I admit it was Mike Siemsen who led me “astray” and not you. I essentially have the same saw at Bob above and I have written nothing about it yet for fear of being one of those you mention who write without significant testing. I can count the number of rips I have made with the saw (finished a few weeks ago) on 2 hands so my experience isn’t very deep yet. So far I really like it on 12″ and narrower stock. Like Bob said, I prefer it over my 5 ppi 28″ hand saw. I made one attempt on some 10/4, 15″ wide Sapele and it was definitely hard work (made worse by the hardness of the species)and steering was tough but still I started the kerf accurately with a lower pitched saw so the good start helped a lot. In all of the above cases though I was essentially halving the board and this may attribute to my favorable experience. The only time I have cut veneer thicknesses were on 2 occasions with a 5″ wide board that was 12″ long. It was very fast and I did get some deviation. However the shorter length meant that the deviation didn’t make too much difference. I think the final use of the sawn board needs to be considered. Are any of us making case sized veneer in our shops or are we just cutting drawer fronts? Probably the later and more than likely the resawing of larger stock is to make solid wood panels. In this case like I did, we are halving the stock and this saw (so far) works well.

However, I am about to do some field testing of some different widths of blades to include 3 and 4″ which may be interesting on the torsion front.

By: Bob Rozaieski

Bob Rozaieski — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 13:09:50 +0000

I agree with Adam. I’ve actually found this saw harder to use with two people. Maybe it was just me, but I felt like we were both trying to correct the cut differently and almost fighting against each other. Admitedly, I don’t have a lot of experience using my saw as a two man saw, but I was working with another very good sawyer, better than me, and I still felt like we were at odds. He had no problem using the saw solo in some really wide stuff. I haven’t had too many problems solo either after a little practice. It is very possible, however, that my expectations from the saw are not as high as Adam’s so perhaps what is acceptable for me would not be in his eyes.

By: Adam Cherubini

Adam Cherubini — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 04:22:31 +0000

Regarding sawing partners, I’ve tried this, but with all due respect, I don’t believe there are more than a handful of Americans who have the skill required. The job of the other guy, the pitman in this instance, is no laughing matter. Unlike an open (frameless) pit saw both sawyers are steering the same frame. Making corrections, working as a team, is no laughing matter.

Have I explored 2 man operation this to its fullest? No, absolutely not. Am I giving up on this saw? No. Can I recommend it to individual looking to saw their own veneers by hand? I’m sorry I can’t.

By: zdillinger

zdillinger — Tue, 22 Jan 2013 14:21:48 +0000

I’m sure the Roubo saw would work fine if you had a partner to help you saw. I do not, so I’ve never made one. All of my resawing is done with, as you say, a coarse handsaw. It works just fine.