Comments on: Dovetails in Real Time

By: Don Williams

Don Williams — Tue, 30 Mar 2010 20:36:35 +0000

Chris

I remember well an exercise I gave to new interns who were trying "to get a feel for working wood." The exercise? cut a corner with two dovetails. One young lady nailed it PERFECTLY the first time, for which I have retained resentment for almost fifteen years she has in fact remained my favorite protege over the years, and we remain close to this day. Another young woman fussed with it for hours, and finally in desperation asked me to show her in real time. I cut a decent dovetail in just a few minutes. Huffily she griped that it only took me "a few minutes." she was a snotty little thang, but I gently corrected her. "No," I said, "it took me twenty five years and fifteen minutes to do it." she bailed, and I lost touch with her the day she walked out.

Two hours to make a drawer? Pretty good, if you ask me. IIRC the price books for Philadelphia c.1770 allowed 1 1/2 hours per drawer.

don

By: Rob Cosman

Rob Cosman — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 14:45:52 +0000

Seems this "fast dovetailing" topic has jumped the intended track. The youtube clips I did were intended to first give Frank a little poke (in fun) and second to provide a wee bit of entertainment. On a more serious note, you could almost say I teach dovetailing for a living, average is about 20 people per week. What I try to instill in them is that craftsmanship is about efficient precision. One hundred years ago if you were the best dovetailer on the block but it took you a weekend to cut a corner you propably got paid to sweep the floors instead! It has to get done whether to satisfy the boss or her! (dont think I needed "or") Just as Chris said, the joint is intended to be assembled "saw cut to saw cut". A few years back while shooting a DVD in England with Alan Peters we had a lively discussion on this subject. It was his pet peeve that all the noted craftsman he knew, in his words, "didnt have the guts to put the saw on the line and make the cut". They instead would leave the line and spend precious minutes paring to fit. This is not the way it should be done. In my workshops I don’t let the students pare, they are taught to work carefully, check as they go and learn from the result. A few cracked joints will go along way to improving one’s pre-fit tolerances. It doesnt have to be done in 3:40 but it does have to get done!
Cheers
Rob Cosman

By: imdrmarshall.myopenid.com

imdrmarshall.myopenid.com — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:22:35 +0000

i dont think that there is a such thing as being to "slow" when it comes to wood working. but then again i am one of the ones that "take my time" also. the way i look at it is, take your time and do it right the first time, or you will end up doing it twice most of the time…which equals more time AND money…even though i have all the time in the world, the money is a bit scarce. and if your building something for someone else and you have told them it would be done by a certain time, and you know your a bit on the slow side…just make sure you accounted for that when you are giving the due date. i (for lack of a better term) "blame" my taking my time on my "attention to detail" that i honed while in the Marine Corps…and to tell you the truth i treasure this "skill". i know that when i am finished with a project, i wont be sitting there looking at it wishing i had taken a little more off here, or a little less off there… i have a real problem selling/giving/ even showing someone something i have made, if i am not 100% satisfied with my work. with that said though, i have the privilege of not having to rely on my woodworking as a living/source of income… so if your like some of us, that just takes a little extra time…cherish that and dont fold to the peer pressure.
also.. thank you to all those who write the articles, and to all those who post comments, from which i have learned so much and look forward to learning more for years to come.

By: Sean

Sean — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:43:25 +0000

What’s the hurry? I’ve always wondered why it was taken as a given by some hobbiests that we must work quickly. I suppose that quick can be short hand for skillful – hance leading to a better result. There does, for example, seem to me a distinct difference in some cases between the result obtained by a master making sure skillful strokes versus a mediocre worker making many tentative ones full of tweaking and such that shows in the product. I don’t think dovetails are really an example of that. I’ve seen it more in things like turnings.

As for thoughts of being able to hold my own in 18th Centruy shop – laugh out freaking loud. No dabbler is ever going to equal people who do it all day every day for a life’s work as far as efficiency and skill. To think otherwise is delusional.

By: Bob Demers

Bob Demers — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:12:56 +0000

Wow, two hours per drawers?
I take me that just to gather my tools from around the shop LOL

Now where did I last put down that chisel i wonder??

Bob

By: DT slowpoke

DT slowpoke — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:12:56 +0000

Try deliberate practice.
It was suggested in that other ww rag a few years back. A couple of pieces of scrap once a week or something. Time yourself and I think in the course of a year you’ll be faster AND better.

This reminds me of a fabulous article in the Harvard Business Review entitled: "The Making of an Expert." to summarize expertise in any field comes from deliberate focused practice, time, and top tier mentoring.

By: Christopher Schwarz

Christopher Schwarz — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:40:45 +0000

That’s a Gramercy dovetail saw from Tools for Working Wood. Nice saw with fine teeth that is good for drawer work especially.

I don’t pare my pins and tails unless I really botch things. I can work right off the saw about 95 percent of the time.

For me, the time-eater is cleaning the floors of the joints.

By: John Burton

John Burton — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 02:49:10 +0000

Chris
I love the act of cutting them also. 2 questions:
1. What kind of saw is that in the picture
2. Do yours fit "off the saw" or do you have to tweak with a chisel?

By: Luke Townsley

Luke Townsley — Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:10:56 +0000

For hobbyists, it doesn’t matter how fast you cut dovetails. 100 years from now, your stuff will show up in an antique shop and a middle aged couple will stop by and look at it and then shrug their shoulders and say, "you know, Ikea has one of these for cheaper. Let’s go over there."

By: Derek Cohen

Derek Cohen — Sun, 21 Feb 2010 05:15:35 +0000

"Since hand tools rely more on skill there is always a element of competition. Down deep I think most hand tool woodworkers want to think they could hold their own in an 18th century cabinet shop".

Hi David

I think that there is truth in this…. for hobbiests, that is. I doubt that the great majority of pro woodworkers would have the same endearment for handtools since time is money and they must be focussed on the final outcome. While I could not give up my analysts couch for a wood bench for reasons that I like to put food on the family table, I admit to fantasizing what it would be like as a cabinetmaker a couple of hundred years ago. It is the romance of this that adds to the privacy of the woodshop since we are not only separated by a door, but also by time.

These competitive strivings are, I feel, vulverable to misinterpreting the messages from the many DVDs on woodwork, including dovetailing. The presenters are good at what they do (otherwise why buy what they offer), and I think that many forget that it takes not only years to get to this level, but also frequent practice of the craft. And the world is not getting any patienter (is that a word?), with "instant" being the increasing expectation. So when I see speed being used to sell handtool work, you have to recognise that the bastion walls of the handtool shop are being threatened.

Regards from Perth
Derek