My personal experience has been that poorly desined and constructed guards are more dangerous than no guards at all. The anti-kickback pawls on my small benchtop saw are a perfect example. After having them jam the wood against the blade in such a way that almost caused me to run my hand into the blade for the 5th time, I finally got wise and removed them. The exposed blade is for me a constant reminder of the danger of using it.

I have also used a European style saw with the "best" guards installed. After having the guard trap the board aganst the table multiple times (which results in the desire to just shove it harder to get it to feed) I am not sure that they are the best answer either.

I do like the riving knife on the European saws but even it needs some work to make it better as you can only use the saw if the blade is cutting clear through the wood, i.e., no tennons or rabbites.

The best guard system I have used is the over head style, but you can not cut anything smaller than about 4" wide with it in place, so cutting smaller pieces, which are inherently more dangerous to cut, requires the guard to be removed.

Having used a SawStop (not mine) for about a year, I am not convinced that they are all that great either. I have seen multiple times (5 times in one year) where they tripped without any "human flesh" being involved at all, and at $400.00 a pop that adds up fast. Also the safety claims for them cuase many users to rely on the machine to keep them safe rather than their brain.

Every demonstation of the SawStop I have seen used an extremely slow "feed rate" rather than what would be a typical accident "feed rate". Falling or kickback type approach rates are typically so fast that you can not react in time to stop before you hit the blade. The demonstraions have always used a feed rate that is about 1/3 to 1/2 or less those typicaly used to feed a board into a saw normally, instead of what would happen in an accident.

As a former electronics repairman, I know how likely electronics are to fail. The safety circuit is supposedly checked every time you turn the saw on and will not let you use the saw if it isn’t working, however, I also know that any safety circuit can and will fail eventually. So it is only a matter of time before someone loses a finger to the SawStop.

To put it in perspctive, even when funtioning correctly, if you are using a 40 tooth 10" blade on the saw, in the 5 milliseconds that it takes to stop the blade, 13 teeth have passed the contact point (and yes the blade is retracting as well, but . . .). If the contact point is at the front of the blade, it might not cut you much, but you could still end up needing stitches. If you are falling onto the top of the blade, the injury will most likely result in needing stitches, but losing a digit is not as likely. So, yes it is "safer" than other saws, but relying on it to keep you from getting hurt is unrealistic.

In my opinion every person that uses a table saw is responsible for their own safety while using it. If they do something stupid, injury will result, but that is no body’s fault but their own.

Back to the issue at hand?
The tablesaw was invented after the panel intro.
It was never intended for the diy market.
There is nothing that we can do to make it right.
Much easier to start allover and make new tools that they confirm to the Dead Wood Concept.
I can’t Imagine a milling machine without a vise.

I think that we ( woodworkers) can save the trade and hobby that for many people is a simple need.
Right now woodworking is the most expensive and the same time the most dangerous hobby and trade.
If we can make it safer and affordable instead of few Normalites we will have million(s)? new woodworkers every year.
Imagine the huge market that we’re forcing away from us?
IImagine the benefits of keeping the woodshops at the schools and the kids safe and busy making stuff instead of looking for answers in drugs?
thanks

dino
eurekazone

I’m letting your first comment stay for now, but your second one crossed the line and has been deleted. You’re welcome to discuss the issue at hand, but it isn’t appropriate for you to promote your product in this space. I’ll be happy to put you in touch with our advertising people.

We like to design tools that offer the safety and quality of the dead wood concept.
The idea is used in heavy duty industrial machinery for ages. Imagine feeding planks of 4" white oak lumber in a 40 HP gang rip saw without the overhead pressure rollers? Instant death.

The diy market works with the wrong tools and we need to stop the bad reputation of woodworking and re-open the trade schools.

Most woodworkers think that the dead wood concept is bad for woodworking. No Table saws. No injuries.
No macho man? Instead af cattering to few brave Normalites…why not telling the public that we can have safe woodworking and we can re-open the trade schools if we start to think and learn how the beam saws and gang rip saws work?

the latest answer to the problem was invented few months ago.
The ripsizer. Here is a videoshowing 4-5 cuts in less than 4 minutes? The bridge applies pressure against the wood and the saw slides on the track/clamp. Cleaner cuts and very accurate using rip stops instead of binding fences.
Enjoy and feel free to send me an email at ezsmart@gmail.com and I will do my best to help your cause. After all, you guys have the power and the know how to "talk".
I;m only a carpenter who loves woodworking and the trades. Thanks.
dino
eurekazone inc. Enjoy the dark video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5XTTGqR0Sw

Sawstop has changed the field with their technology and anyone is free to buy one. Perhaps their competitors can come up with their own technology to compete with Sawstop. I also fear that some people will get a false sense of security and become even more careless with an additional safety device in place.

I am not at all against Sawstop. Both my father and I have received hand injuries on the same saw, due to our own neglegence. I have since purchase a guard for the saw on E-bay, and it is always in place unless the operation calls for the guard to be removed. I just don’t believe our government has any business mandating that everyone use a patented technology that favors one company. If the government was that concerned, perhaps they should have denied the patent to Sawstop as being too important to restrict to one company (not likely to happen).

Just my two cents on the matter. Be safe everyone!

And:
"Even better would also be a retrofit solution, at a reasonable price, for existing table saws."

As to point 1, I agree that it is only a matter of time before others offer similar technology, but the price precedent has been set and few sawyers will junk their saws and invest thousands to upgrade, which is the situation today.

As to point 2, this seems a more likely scenario and I hope manufacturers are burning the midnight oil working on this one.

Personally, I have a healthy respect for my tablesaw (okay, I am a bit afraid of it because I have acquaintances who have had accidents with them)so I like to think I am extra careful, but that is no guarantee. I look forward to affordable FSAT, and obviously, the sooner the better.

I have been a woodworker for 50 years ( started on a Shopsmith) with my dad at the age of 10. We built a boat. I ran my hand though the saw one time. Luckily no amputations. But that was and has been the only accident I have had. A sharp Blade is one of the best tools for safety you can have.

1. Large tool companies are likely wary of licensing
from a small company w/ a technology they do not understand.

2. The (possibly false) implied liability issue. Many
vendors are afraid that if they install such a
device it suggests that the saw is "safe" and then when
the user gets hurt anyway(a fluke, or more likely from
a kickback) they are liable.

This is the same logic that causes the NFL to not mandate concussion inhibiting helmets for players.

3. Cost. Like somebody pointed out, the cost difference is
WAY more than 10-20%.

4. The device is not practical for smaller saws.

5. I have heard rumors that there is some momentum for
an industry standard "flesh detection" system. Perhaps
vendors are waiting for this to be viable to free them
from sole source licensing.

Solutions:

1. Use your guard whenever possible.

2. Buy a saw with a good riving knife if possible.

3. Buy a SawStop if practical.

4. If you have ANY doubts about a cut, walk away. Find
some other way to do it.

5. Use the right jigs, and hold downs for the operation
at hand to control the stock.

6. DON’T stand right behind the blade. Move off to the
side.

7. If you are tired, angry, distracted, etc get out
of the shop or just use hand tools.

8. Use hand tools.